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The Bean Counter Interview

McGladery interview

Clay Worden is the Managing Partner of the Orlando McGladrey office. Clay has an amazing story over the course of his career. He left the first accounting firm he worked for to start his own practice with two other partners.

Years later, they had built the practice to >120 employees!

They ended up selling the business to McGladrey which became most of their Orlando office. Great story, awesome guy! Enjoy the podcast.

To listen to the entire interview, see to the right.

Read full interview transcript here. Collapse
    Intro: Did you have a job in accounting? Are you looking? Whether you are starting from ground zero in a university or are crashing it with your full time career, the Beam Counter is the show for you. Here is your host, Andrew Argue. Andrew: Good morning everyone, thank you so much for tuning in this episode of the Beam Counter podcast. I’m your host once again, Andrew Argue. Today, we have a very special guest on the call Clay Worden of McGladrey. Clay, thanks for coming up. Clay: Certainly, glad to be here. Andrew: So, Clay, you know, for those of us who don’t know you, tell us a little about your background, where you from, how did you get into accounting. Clay: My background is probably unique here down in the south because I was born and raised in a ranch in wide-open spaces of Wyoming. I came down to Flagler College on San Agustin, Florida on a basketball scholarship, played in the state championship, and haven’t left the state since. I started in a small CPA firm down in Brighton, Florida and decided that the town is a little sleepy for me, got a job in KPMG in Orlando and work there for several years. And then, the entrepreneurial side of me decided that I have to start my own CPA firm, so me, and two other guys started a CPA firm in Orlando. Grew that to be one of the largest CPA in Orlando and fall back in a McGladrey four years ago. Andrew: Wow, that’s an awesome story. That’s sort of exactly why we have you on the podcast because you know, to hear a little bit of your experience and getting to that story. So you’ve been sitting there at McGladrey for about five years, so how about your other partners with the firm that you have start with, did they come to McGladrey as well? Clay: No. One of those guys was in his retirement age and after doing some transaction, he retired. And then the third partner has turn the firm with me and he retired just a few years ago and decided to do something completely different and built a great farm up in North Carolina. Andrew: Wow, that’s awesome. Now, so tell me a little more about this. You’re working; you said it’s KPMG before you start your own firm, right? Clay: Right. Andrew: And how did you find your partners, what is the reason for getting out there and making it on your own? Clay; You know, I got a start, just like most other young accountants do today. You’ve got to start somewhere and pay your dues and work hard and develop a reputation for yourself. In that process, I met older partners at McGladrey, when I was at KPMG at that time. Two other guys, one guy left a couple years before I have decided to leave. He and I well sort of make a haunting list, talk a few times and discovered that we share a common interest and that we like to serve. So we decided to get this new firm set up. And there was a senior partner there who has a lot of grey hair, a lot of credibility. We approached him; convince him to come along with a couple of young guys so we could have credibility when we get started. Andrew: Absolutely. That’s awesome. Not a lot of people do that, but I know there is a quite a lot of people I spoken to that will get interested to hear that I guess they like to hear your story. Now, the question I start up with when we first got started is about your background. Tell me what were you experiencing in your current position or tell me, you know about running your company before just how you get over the moon excited that you can use accounting. Clay: Yeah, maybe I’m an unusual one but I even consider another accounting career. Accounting has always been what I’m focused in, enjoyed and you know I’m excited about having my career and my managing partner wanted to walk from McGladrey. We have a hundred and twenty-five folks or so, the firm has previously has probably a hundred folks and I was just being glad or that helping others develop their careers or helping them with a seminar bout their business. That’s what gets me excited. And I got lot of stories that like I was able to be part of the team when clients made real successes. Andrew: Now, did you say how big was the firm that you started when you ended up selling? Clay: A hundred and twenty folks when we sold it. Andrew: Wow. You know, one of the things that I have a woman on the podcast last week who is basically a consultant of a CPA firm industry but she opts for being marketing to a lot of firms. And one of the things she said is that, a lot of firms struggle in getting a newer staff, seniors and early managers involve in marketing efforts of the firm and that ends up being difficult on the back when there is more of a department level who is responsible for all that. So I guess, my question for you is that you broke out and started your own firm, how did you build the experience to be able to grow that company to be so large and incur that so many clients. Clay: You know, there’s a commercials on television now that show how a company started on a garage and we were no different. We kind set up the CPA firm in the guest room, guest bedroom of my house, and it’s really just a mind set about getting out and catches the flash and getting to know people. You know the first year I think, we generated about seven hundred fifty thousand dollars in the business. Andrew: Wow. Clay: Which probably sounds like a lot to some folks but that’s quite a bit coming of a business that should have compete and have some roadblocks, which is trust in a brand new company that’s getting started. It really got down to leveraging in relationship that we nurtured for years and talking to the banks and make sure we have their support if we have to talk to the customers, and really be enable to give our compelling reason why they should even give us a chance to look at their books and records and ledgers. Andrew: Wow. That’s an awesome story and I mean seven hundred fifty thousand dollars in the first year sounds small but breaking out to do your own thing as you say and not compete is pretty much impressive. So thanks for sharing that. Now, people say when you search on companies that you always face a lot of failures along the way is that one really stand out to you, that sort of big failure that you had? Clay: Yeah, there was. We have an opportunity. He has a high profile, prominent here in town, has a great name, could have been a good name, and could be on a client list. We went out there and fetch. In the sell process we dig in and try to solve some problems. And so we got called back, go out and sit down with the owner and we start the dialogue and we can see the dialogue wasn’t going to see what we want and it ended and we did not get the work. So we followed up with the owner and say’ “Hey, what happened here? I thought we’re on tract, I thought us going to do business together?” And he said, “We’ll as you trying to show how smart you are and point all the mistake of our current controller of our books, it really makes our controller feel uncomfortable and it is not the kind of relationship that she wants to work with.” So we learn that in the sell process, it does not the time to show people how smart you are by pointing out your shortcomings but rather focused on the things that you can do for the organization. And that really turns around the sales effort and helps us with our compounding growth for the year when we really focused on developing the relationship get their notebooks and not necessarily point out some of the things that we know were weren’t right. Andrew: Yeah that’s it. Great story, it’s tough at the same time you don’t know what to be in somebody’s shoes are but maybe that will point out how a person feels like they’re coming short of expectations. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. One of the questions I would like to ask is what is the resource that you use, publication that you read or something that you put in the internet or someone else could go out there and search today. Clay: You know, the resource that I use is grey hair. I constantly speaking, I have several coaches in my career, I have several non-CPA business owners, and I have a few CPA partners who is tried and tested, who has a lot of grey hair, had been there and done that. And I think as a young guy certainly thought I had a lot of answer as to how you do things but what amazes me is that the more time you spend, listen and talk to seasoned business veterans, the knowledge you can learn and the things you can from them to put in your toolbox is incredible. So I think there is not one resource that I counted on but I can probably think about a handful of guys and ladies that have been very successful in their own careers and I tried to learn and model from the things they have done and implement that in the business that I was involved in. Andrew: Right. Great, that’s a great point. Now, when you went out and started your own company, were it something that you always have an intention of selling or do you think you just have to keep it to yourself? What is your process when you started out there? Clay: Yeah, I always knew that I wanted to be my own boss and I was like that young folks that came out of school today with that desire and I probably underestimated that how difficult it is being the boss, to make decisions, and make sure you have all that quality control check in things and place. And the only thing is business owners are terrific, you don’t have someone to answer to but yourself. You get the benefits of successes and the failures, so there’s a lot of word about being the business owners and not entrepreneur but you know, I can’t say I ever had the intention to sell and it was never in the horizon to do that. We got approached and thought we’d entertain the discussion and you know we’ve kid around to people that we’ve worked with for twenty year, that were part of that organization, you know we’ve been part of it. And we often wonder what it would be like if we had not sold it. I think all in all, it is the right decision to make. It allows you to grow and develop a new chapter in your life. But, you know, I heard those young folks that do want to be entrepreneurial but I would just caution them and say, “Be patient. And make sure you have develop the skills at whatever the technical and service type or sales type because without sales you have no business. You got to make sure you have honed those skills and go out there and be the boss.” Andrew: Now, one of the things that people you want to say to break out and open their own firm and dive on the process of doing it, you know one of the things I always ask is how do you gain up that courage for the couple of weeks, or the couple of days that you know you decided to pull the trigger? What’s the story like for you, was there a moment in head that, “Okay I want to have my own firm.” And then you got your own partner, what was the gradual process? Clay: You know, It is different for everybody. Sometimes it’s the frustration, you get the promotion you want, and other people said you had a gift, sometimes you know people leave more on a frustration mode. For me, it was not necessarily that. I knew I want to be entrepreneurial and I always get outside the line. I enjoy developing and building things and business. It’s fun to build, develop and sell. I had that goal early on I think but I knew I didn’t have the skills and the training that I needed at KPMG and the partners there are terrific finding ground. Some of the larger firms are a great area to get the technical and sale side of it. And so for me it was sort of afraid, I was nervous for the next chapter to come. And I was forced to used my own bank out to write a check for my secretary at first. You know, it’s a little bit scary but I think it’s the desire to go out and make a difference that provide the fire to get you out and met the folks and being confident and make a firm and deliver on it. Andrew: You know, you have an interesting story in the perspective of the people that you have worked with before and you know you sort of mention, we don’t have to go in detail, you reached out to a more senior partner to coming along with you. How do you keep to manage to convince that person, you know, were you a little nervous about doing that while you still work at the company? Clay: Yeah, we were certainly nervous. And I think on that point the decision have been clearly made that I was leaving and that whether they’re going to walk me out or I was going to walk out is more likely to be seen but I was, you know id crossed the line in my mind and I knew I was right to go. I think when you talk about, talk with the folks, when you look at people that have been successful, they’re all surrounded themselves by people as successful or more successful than themselves. So when we look around and say, we are a couple of young guys that may not have the credibility of great hairs and tons of experience that’s a piece of puzzle we really need. We talk to a guy, I had a relationship or worked with them closely for a couple of years and presented him with the same opportunity and he was not bad but he was nearing retirement age at KPMG and so he was not quite ready to retire and tie his shoes up decided it was a great challenge for him as well. So it turned out that it was a very rewarding for him for his professional growth and financially. Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it was a great story, you know, to one to make a choice to leave and get people to go with you. It sounds like it makes a big difference. It sounds like it’s a tremendous growth to make it to a hundred and twenty people. So tell me, how about someone who is more in the university or in the early stages of their career, first or maybe two years, a lot of people are not yet sure in that area. What is your biggest piece of advice for them? Clay: You know, there’s no substitute for experience. And the hardest thing to get a job when I was in college, I work in a small packs, doing this and that, and I think getting a job is getting a practical experience. I know now, today you hire someone with a little experience. It’s always an easier decision for us than hire the new hires because we got basically, we hire a set of new we still kind of teach her and there is a lot of work to our system, but occasionally we are working for talented experience hire. So, I would encourage that group to stay put and get some experience. Don’t hop around; don’t jump around for bunch of different jobs. Find a place that you think can give you training on what skill type you need and build yourself a foundation and pay your dues. Most successful people whether they play baseball in the minor leagues pay their dues, gaining that knowledge and experience that’s going to be the foundation of your career. Andrew: Yeah, absolutely right. What about someone who is a little further on, five, six years in, I was thinking on how they should take it to the next level. How should they be thinking about those decisions, whether they going to stay in their current firm or go on a partner tract or going to start their own firm or private industry, what is it for you that made the decision? What would you recommend people to navigate that stage of their career? Clay: My recommendation is divide your career about five year chunks. I’m a tremendous advocate of staying in a company until you make me a manager. I think my career is watching people that walk before or walk after, the long term of earning potential and make me manager and then step out unto industry for a different career which tends to be different to those who leads and becomes very successful too. The odds is getting too much experience because once you are in the manager level you got to prove you got those technical aspects down, you become and develop that trusted advisor where the firm is trusting you of their fate, plans , clientele, and got to the point where they rely on you and trust you with the level your own, the staff and senior accountants. So I would say, get one step, focus on that and do what it takes to get the manager and work on a firm, a firm that would looks good on your resume, you know you need to have a reputable one or two places you work out to get to manager. And then when you get to manager take another five years and, “Okay, am I going to do things that I am required to make partners to this firm?” And that is, you got some expertise, a real based knowledge someplace and have that ability to sell and generate new business. And the third is being a people developer. Help to develop future talent that’s going to come in and help you find clients and build a team around that. It is really, you know, I think the first five years you can woo people, four years if you really half won or may take seven years if you don’t half won. The first five years is the really critical one, and the next five years is kind of positioned on the managerial position or you have some other things that you think might be interesting. Andrew: Yeah, perfect. I appreciate you sharing that and clear things up, a lot of details on how you side and how you different five years buckets. Now, we always finish the show with a final same two questions. The first point is, tell us about a great book you have read that you will recommend to everyone out there. Clay: You know, this book has been out there in a while now, Good the Great, a solid business book. It kinds of help you from a personal stand point, I think separate from me, there is a lot of people that counts out there that are good, there’s few great ones, some companies out there that are good but a few great ones. If you can focus on to find and differentiators that makes use of an individual not just good but great, your career can go exponentially. And same thing for those concepts to help people understand how not to shape the shiny objects. Don’t shape the shiny objects, just stay focus on the goal, what you are trying to accomplish, how you become the best that you can in that given area. Andrew: Now perfect. I think that’s Jim Collins book. Its good, we will include that in the notes and I’ m going to check that out. And the last question is tell us about a goal you have and how did you reach that goal? Clay: You know people who work with me, probably saying that one of the things I can stick with is, “Perception is reality.” Whether that is a client, how they perceive your service or the quality of your attention to them, that’s what really is important, whether we think serve them better or not but the main point is how do they feel like they got served. And from our people’s stand point, how do they perceived your leadership skill, whether you think you are a great leader or whether people say you are a great leader, the people perceived you as someone they can trust and rely and have confidence that you will going to help them elevate in their careers. So, perception tends to be reality. Andrew: I appreciate that. What a great story. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for sharing that. If anyone wants to get in touch with you, what’s the best way? Do you have a LinkedIn account, they can check out, or email? Clay: Yes, LinkedIn or email at clay.worden@mcgladrey.com Andrew: Perfect. Clay, thanks again for coming up. Clay: Thanks Andrew. Andrew: If anyone having questions for me, you can reach me at andrew@thebeancounter.org. Thank you so much for tuning in and I will talk to you soon.
Clay Worden McGladrey

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